File talk:Whitecity.jpg

Deletion request is unnecessary

The deletion request for this image is incorrect for a number of reasons.

• The image contains no user interface elements, because it was ripped from the game. The proposed replacement is a screenshot that has extra user interface elements including the text box and the Magneton cursor.
• The proposed replacement is scaled 2×. This image is the original size.
• This JPEG has not been recompressed. It is stored in the game internally in JPEG format and was ripped byte‐for‐byte. Converting to PNG gains nothing.

IIMarckus (talk) 23:28, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

• It's only drawback is that File:Whitecity.jpg is too small.
• This is the correct scale because of how the Nintendo 64 works internally. The image was taken using a special pixel-accurate plug-in free of artifacting produced by other emulator graphics plug-ins. Sure File:White City.png has some blurry areas, but if you look closely enough, what the Magnemite can surround seems to be really sharp and not blurry or pixelated, which would happen in the case of enlarging a file bigger than its actual size. Is the N64 enlarging data that is originally 320x237 to 640x474 and overlaying more detailed versions of the nine visit-able areas?
• JPEG files in a N64 game? That is very odd to me. Provide evidence or the utility/technique used please. I'm not at all familiar on the ROM's file structure and data composition.

Ultimately, I'm undecided what is the better image; a game rip or a screenshot. I need some more people experienced with ROM hacking Pokémon Stadium 2 before I can consider removal. For now, the PNG will stand on White City until we can get this resolved (unless a moderator has objections). Or should we have both images? --Wildgoosespeeder (talk) 06:32, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

• Yes, Pokémon Stadium upscales these backgrounds from their original size before displaying them. The original size is visible in other parts of the game; for example, the battle scenes in the credits (Jasmine vs. Brock, etc.) are the same type of image and are displayed at their original size.
• Yes, the locations that get added over time such as bridges and caves in Gym Leader Castle are small images containing the new feature that get overlaid on top of the background image. That’s why in screenshots things like the forest and the sea look blurry while the other locations are crisp. If you look closely you can see artifacts forming a square around each location. This is also used to add new locations as the game progresses (e.g., Rival’s cave, Red’s cave). Since a picture’s worth a thousand words, here’s a screenshot where I’ve swapped the daytime White City with the nighttime version: [1]
• Yes, they really are JPEG files. Backgrounds are one of many data tables in Stadium 2, formatted as a set of pointers to “PRESJPEG,” a simple header format that basically just provides the dimensions of the image and is followed by raw JPEG data. This particular image is located from offsets 0x1E92E20–0x1EA5478 in the Pokémon Stadium 2 USA ROM (MD5 1561c75d11cedf356a8ddb1a4a5f9d5d).

Since you’re asking for my qualifications, I’ve done extensive reverse engineering of the Gen I/II Pokémon games. Extracting data and code from Stadium 2 is one of my current projects.

I don’t like having the user interface elements in the screenshot, but it is true that the ripped background has a lower resolution for the parts with overlays. Probably the best option in the end would be to rip the overlays as well and use them to generate a clean image free of the text box and Magneton. I’ll plan to do that, but I haven’t found how the overlays are stored yet. IIMarckus (talk) 07:26, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

Based on your response, both of us are right in our own ways. No simple answer. Needs further discussion from other people and further investigation though before we make a move on what to do with the two images. --Wildgoosespeeder (talk) 07:41, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

Actually, I think there’s a way we can do this without further ripping. The nighttime screenshot makes the overlays easy to pick out, and we can place them manually over an upscaled ripped background.

I don’t have access to the pixel‐accurate plugin right now. Zooming in on my screenshot, I see visible artifacts, and I suspect they’re not supposed to be there—I don’t trust my own plugin. Can you:

• Use a hex editor (such as HxD) to change the data at 0x1E70030–0x1E70037 from 00 02 2E 10 00 01 26 70 to 00 0B D1 60 00 01 0E B0 (or if your ROM says 02 00 10 2E 01 00 70 26, to 0B 00 60 D1 01 00 B0 0E)
• At this point White City in‐game should look like the screenshot I posted.
• Take two screenshots with Magneton in different positions
• Crop out the nighttime background to come up with an image like this (minus the Magneton and the bit on the left)
• Overlay it on top of this image (which is the ripped background, converted to PNG and upscaled 2× bilinearly; feel free to upscale with a different interpolation if you don’t think bilinear is suitable)
• Save the result as a PNG

That will result in a 640×480 PNG with the crisp overlays, and *without* Magneton and the textbox. I will be happy with that. IIMarckus (talk) 08:17, 21 April 2016 (UTC)